honestly this will probably be a Controversial Post so Don’t @ Me but
you absolutely should be pro animal testing.
against cosmetic animal testing is one thing. to be honest, if we were in 1955, i’d say it’s still necessary, but we’ve kinda sussed out our options. we have a good database. only the weird experimental bullshit is worth animal testing in the field of cosmetics.
medical animal testing, though? if you come for medical animal testing, i will fight you.
yes i know the pictures look gory, and mean, and creepy. but this is still the primary way we learn.
only a fucking fool says that we know enough about biology to model it all on a computer. biology is one of those subjects where it can look like we know what we’re doing in that big picture high school view, but SURPRISE ASSHOLE! WE KNOW JACK FUCKING SHIT. we just discovered a new organ, like, a couple years ago. there are layers of immune system so involved that we know humans probably have them but we just don’t fucking know how to spot it. and if you can’t spot it, if you can’t describe its behavior – how the fuck do you computer model it?
so what do you do? you use test animals as analogues. a lot of test animals are used because we want to study something, but we need it simpler, and more easy to spot. shoutout to fruit flies and zebrafish! and then there are some test animals where we want to see what it might look like in a complex critter with a lot of moving parts similar to ours – like mice.
in a perfect world, we wouldn’t have to do any animal testing. let me get this straight: i know that animals suffer and die so we can test on them. i know that. but even as i mourn them, i thank them.
we still need animal testing in medical science the same way a general needs foot soldiers. in a perfect world, there would be no war. but there is war yet to fight.
be grateful. be compassionate. fight for strict ethical standards. (for one fucking thing, bad ethics means bad fucking science, because you’re introducing additional variables into the mix and not being honest about balancing for them!) remember every single animal from chimpanzee down to fruitfly as a brave soul who gave their life for a greater cause.
but the cause is still great.
honor the sacrifice of these animals by supporting research, not seeking to make their deaths be in vain by saying you do not want the foundation of knowledge they gave us to be built upon any longer. they gave us a precious gift of knowledge for their lives already. it is not kind nor ethical to spurn that gift, because the war isn’t over, and the battles are not yet won.
remember these animals as brave soldiers. honor them. be proud of them. seek that those still in the fight are treated humanely. hell, make memorials! there is a lovely memorial in poland iirc dedicated to all the knockout mice that have helped us understand genetics, and it’s one of my favourite monuments in the entire world.
…but don’t disrespect their sacrifice.
(and if you need to care, on a more practical level, about the medical animal testing that looks ickiest to you because it’s cute doggies and kitties? ….where the fuck do you think new veterinary medicines come from, shat out by cherubim upon our heads? knowing that a medicine works for x illness in dogs isn’t just a stepping stone to human test trials, WE NOW HAVE A MEDICINE FOR DOGS TOO.)
it was unveiled in 2013, and is in Novosibirsk at their institute of genetics (same people that still are running the SibFox experiment)
i think we need more monuments like this. i would like to see one in every college that has a genetics department. thanking not only mice, but all laboratory animals.
seriously though whenever i’ve brought it up to people who are against medical testing on animals, there’s about 95% odds that they go “oh we can just test people who are in jail and on death row instead!!!”.
and then i always have a moment of being quietly exhausted at them. i feel like it’s a bad sign when my white as wonderbread ass has a moment of “oh god help you, i dunno if i have the strength to explain to you right now about racial problems”. it’s so above and beyond that when i think somebody is being too white, like when they complain about salt being too spicy and mayonnaise being exotic, like, they’re deep in the shit indeed
Imma toot my own horn and post a link to the poem I wrote about this.
I really love the OP, I really appreciate their reflections on the nuances of the issue. I really admire @vmohlere ‘s poem, it’s a really nice piece of craft. I really love @honoriaw‘s addition.
this is giving me so many good feelings about a nuanced, heavy, difficult topic. I’m so glad we could share them. This is such a hopeful and thoughtful approach.
Why don’t you Google average wait times to receive a medical procedure. There are Canadians that come to the U.S. to get medical care rather than wait over a month to get it done in Canada.
I had cancer and im canadian dumbass i know full well what the wait times are like and its only long if its shit that can wait. Im sorry but im ok with waiting with a non life threatening injury if no one gets turned away from healthcare because they’re poor. The only canadians that go to the united states are rich enough that they are willing to spend the money to save a few hours waiting
Except people with life threatening injuries have to wait as well. My father had to go to the ER because the screws in his knee busted making his stitches rip open and my parents waited for hours before finally leaving when they noticed an elderly woman with a head injury and broken leg waiting at least four hours BEFORE my parents arrived.
Brian Sinclair’s death was completely preventable, yet he waited 34 HOURS in the ER for treatment that would have taken 30 minutes to an hour at most.
There are pros and cons to Canada’s healthcare, and if people want to spend extra money for arguably better treatment and shorter wait lines, I’m personally going to support them any way I can.
Yeah, that happens in the US too though. Literally every single day. Go into any ER in the country at like 9:30 pm and you will see dozens of people with painful injuries waiting hours to see a doctor. People die in the US waiting to see a doctor. The only difference is that it costs them hundreds of thousands of dollars to do so.
I had to wait six months to see an endocrinologist in the US and when I wanted to switch doctors I had to wait another six months to see somebody else, who are these people in the US who don’t have wait times?
(Brian Sinclair’s death, by the way? It’s a terrible tragedy… but the problem there was not that health care resources are spread too thin. It was racism. They saw a native man and assumed he was homeless and drunk, not in distress. As the study I cited above shows, racism is also a factor in US health care.)
So basically, you’re paying a lot more, at both the end-user and governmental levels… but you’re not actually getting a lot more.
Finally: You know what else Canada has that the US doesn’t? Wait time guarantees that require offering a faster alternative if they’re blown.
All those stories of Canadians coming to the US? Yeah, they’re basically made up. Even the highly shady right-wing think tank that Fuckface von Clownstick got the story from, trying to make the best possible case for privatization, only found that 1% of Canadian patients received health care abroad. One. percent. And that’s not “went to the US for health care,” that’s “received health care literally anywhere else for any reason, including just happening to be in another country when we got sick or injured.”
The actual numbers? Well, this study is old, but… out of a pool of 18 000 respondents, they found twenty who went to the US specifically for care.
Twenty. 0.11%.
They found that this data was consistent with Canadian payment records and US border region hospital data, so… yeah. It basically doesn’t happen. And when it does? Frequently that’s because there is an issue with the normal procedures in Canada… so the provincial government covers the cost of getting the patient to the US and treating them there.
I’ll take that over “you must be this rich to live” any day of the week.
It was also found Canadians who are treated in the States are far morely to be there because they became sick or injured while on vacation or are snow birds rather than they purposefully crossed the border.
‘Cause let me tell ya, as someone with a few chronic issues, if my choice is a 20 minute trip to the local hospital in bad traffic, where I’ll at least get coping treatment while I wait or an hour trip, plus border wait, to the States? Yeah, I’ll go local every time. The whole not having to shell out money thing is nice.
I also live near the second busiest hospital in BC. (Possibly Western Canada) Longest I have EVER waited is two hours.. and that was for a shot of toradol for pain treatment.
Another thing the liars above leave out is the huge number of working people in the US who just… don’t go to the doctor when they get injured. Because they know they can’t afford either the cost or the time away from work to get treatment and let it do its work. The US is filled with manual laborers -from roofers to bartenders to painters to stockers- with chronic pain conditions, un- or poorly healed injuries. How do they live with it? Every advil/tylenol/aspirin commericial tells you how. The importance of pain-meds to Pharma profits and easy availability of blackmarket opiates suggests an alternate answer.
The US is 300million people largely self-medicating their pain-management because they don’t want to lose their jobs, can’t afford to see a doctor for it, and don’t trust doctors because of previous bad past experiences caused by the private healthcare system. These people are, effectively, stuck in life-long wait-times, yet conservative defenders of our broken system always seem to forget to mention them when the subject of public healthcare arises.
I have a friend who right now is waiting for a surgery to fix her very badly torn ACL. You know, the ligament that makes it so you can walk, which is kind of important for basically all kinds of work. She is in constant pain, and she already has depression problems so it’s really a precarious situation for her to be in mental-health-wise. She can’t work, so she’s losing money sitting at home unable to do anything. They won’t give her a wheelchair, and she had to pay for her crutches so she can hobble around her house. She can’t drive with her leg jacked up, so she’s homebound. They’re making her wait til the end of March to get it fixed. (It happened late December.)
Oh yeah, and she’s in the US. She’s being told to wait because she’s on a bad insurance plan (the only one she could afford) that won’t let her go to a further away specialist, and the only one in her area is booked up through March. She can’t afford to pay out-of-pocket for the specialists further away and since her insurance won’t let her go there, she’s stuck waiting. Tell me again how great American health systems are and how we don’t have wait times because of it?
On top of this, can anyone explain to me how a shortage of available personnel is the fault of the insurance system and not the physical limitations of population size in proportion to currently standing/staffed hospitals and doctors? I’m trying to wrap my head around “more people getting seen” being a bad thing, is the US system’s solution to this “poor people just do not get care so there are fewer people in line”? Wouldn’t the solution to the problem be “encourage more people to become doctors and nurses, subsidize education and build more emergency care centers”? I’m??
So like can we stop pretending that just because Canada hasn’t absolutely perfected it’s healthcare yet that it somehow isn’t still a far better way of doing things?
When I had my consult with the neurosurgeon for my decompressive craniectomy, it was in early March. Since it was not a life-threatening situation and the doctor was also the chief surgeon and the head of oncology in a neurological hospital, I was told I’d likely have to wait a bit, and was given an estimate of “Early June”. So, three months. Not terrible for a non-urgent procedure by an incredibly busy, incredibly qualified doctor.
I got a phone call in the beginning of April telling me that some space had opened up and my surgery would now be April 19th. I literally did not have time to train a replacement at work, get a will done up, etc.
So yeah, the wait times here in Quebec can be pretty irritating for non-urgent things, but when it’s stuff that really needs to get done, *it gets done*. And often even sooner than estimated.
My surgery ended up costing a whopping $240, because I requested a private room and WiFi access. Had I been willing to sleep in a ward and just use the internet on my phone, it would have been free. Same procedure in a similar facility in Colorado that specialises in neuro procedures? Estimated $140,000. And a six-month waitlist.
OK, time for the US to wake up and realise all they think they know about healthcare in other countries is pretty much just lies and propaganda to make them accept their broken system.
Lets see if I’m following here.
Wait times happen because the health system has a supply/demand mis-match, thus priority has to be given to some patients over others. Wait times based on medical need mean that people with less severe issues will wait longer.
This is unfair, says the person against socialized health care, because who has to wait for service shouldn’t depend on the severity of their issue, but instead, their capability of paying for the access.
So we have, in essence, two proposed solutions to there being a shortage of health care, one is that the people with the greatest need would get priority, and the other is those with the greatest wealth will get priority.
This is the fundamental flaw with treating issues of public good as commodities.
The millionaire with the cold gets the room, doesn’t matter if someone else has a broken arm.
-she actually let her owners touch her without feeding her. even queen fattyfats doesn’t let me touch her even if I’ve got a handful of food directly in front of her face. I doubt Hanako liked being pet much, but she still let them do it, which is pretty impressive.
-she recognized her owners’ faces and footsteps, and apparently would rush over when they called her name. once again, without food, although I can’t imagine that she wasn’t assuming it was food time.
-everyone who owned her was convinced that she’d die for them, and at least her last owner felt that it was a mutual thing.
-I cry about her a lot. she was just a good fish who loved people and I get very emotional ;_;
Two brothers Sean and Daniel Diaz, 16 and 9, are forced to run away from home after a tragic incident in Seattle. In fear of the police, Sean & Daniel head to Mexico while attempting to conceal a sudden and mysterious supernatural power.
Life on the road is tough and now totally responsible for his much younger brother, Sean begins to realize that his decisions will impact their lives forever…
Headcanon: I can muster a cogent argument for why it would make more sense or make for a better story if this were the case
Heartcanon: I don’t have a particular rationale for why this ought to be the case, I just like to imagine it’s true because it gives me the warm fuzzies
Gutcanon: it’s not that I actively want this to be the case – it just unaccountably feels like it should be
Junkcanon: I like to imagine it’s true because it gives me the other kind of warm fuzzies
Spleencanon: I insist that this is the case specifically to spite the author, because, like, fuck you, sir or madam
Backup Tumblr 